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IRC log for #evergreen, 2013-06-05

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All times shown according to the server's local time.

Time Nick Message
00:03 pinesol_green [evergreen|Kyle Tomita] Patron Blocking by lost items and include lost as items out - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=d4918fa>
00:03 pinesol_green [evergreen|Ben Shum] Stamping upgrade script for lost items blocking - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=c13dc8a>
00:03 pinesol_green [evergreen|Ben Shum] Move lost items modification release notes - <http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=​Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=e103aad>
00:03 bshum paxed: Morning!
00:04 bshum I've been meaning to ask you.  What's the best city to set for you as part of my world clock o' Evergreeners that I have going on my clock widget.
00:04 bshum I picked Helsinki but was curious which was best :P
00:08 paxed bshum: finland is within one timezone
00:08 bshum Nice and simple :)
00:09 paxed yup
00:11 * paxed heads out to the library for work.
00:21 bshum Calling 0795
00:44 bshum Releasing 0795 back to the wild.  bug 1079041 isn't fully ready
00:44 pinesol_green Launchpad bug 1079041 in Evergreen ""state" field in patron registration is always required" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1079041
00:46 bshum @eightball Sleepy time?
00:46 pinesol_green bshum: The answer is certainly yes.
00:46 * bshum does as the eightball commands.
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00:56 paxed @roulette
00:56 pinesol_green paxed: *click*
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09:02 dbs bshum: don't sigh about acquisitions testing, please... we're going to try seriously adopting acq after we upgrade to 2.4, and I'm sure all the basic stuff works flawlessly. _flawlessly_.
09:02 * dbs still needs to test that basic stuff, is crossing fingers.
09:15 kmlussier dbs: acq has come a long way in the past year. I hope your testing goes well!
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09:32 rjackson-isl Question regarding Download Offline Patron List - how to make this work? When run currently an empty file is generated (2.2)
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09:36 Dyrcona rjackson-isl: I dunno, but do you get a message returning a "404 not found" error?
09:37 rjackson-isl From the staff client it creates a popup indicating Download completed
09:37 rjackson-isl or should I be looking in logs?
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09:39 Dyrcona rjackson-isl: Does the workstation ou have any patrons? It might only download patrons for the workstation ou.
09:39 rjackson-isl I tried with an ou home setting that has patrons as a local admin profile
09:40 rjackson-isl popup is immediate - like nothing is really being executed
09:40 Dyrcona rjackson-isl: Well, I don't know much about that feature, but it appears to be broken to me in master. I get a 404 on my dev machine, and in production I get what you report.
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09:41 rjackson-isl ok - thanks and if anyone lese has a hint (or two) I would appreciate the advice
09:41 Dyrcona The 404 is likely 'cause I missed something that needs to be configured.
09:42 rjackson-isl we have a book mobile in offline mode due to poor connectivity and wondered if this would help...
09:42 jeff_ the offline patron list downloads a list of barred/lost/expired/penalized patron barcodes, and it depends on offline-blocked-list.pl being run (usually via cron) to generate the list.
09:43 rjackson-isl ok - I will see if I can get that going in test jeff_ ++
09:43 bshum Yeah, for some reason Indiana's list.txt is empty.
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09:45 Dyrcona jeff_++ # I should have known that.
09:47 dbs kmlussier: thanks for the reassurance :)
09:48 kmlussier dbs: What tools did you use when testing accessibility in tpac?
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09:54 kmlussier dbs: nm, I found it.
09:54 bshum dbs: I only sigh about testing new acq "features".  It's hard to test expected behavior sometimes :(
09:54 bshum But I agree with kmlussier that acq has come a very long way from when we first started using them back in 2.0 days.
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10:15 kmlussier Should https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1155278 be backported since it is an accessibility issue? Looks like it was only committed to 2.4.
10:15 pinesol_green` Launchpad bug 1155278 in Evergreen "TPAC: Accessibility audit compliance" (affected: 3, heat: 14) [Undecided,Fix released]
10:18 bshum kmlussier: Well, just a cursory glance, I can see potential conflicts in picking the fix back to 2.3 alone.  And then we'd have to go find all the bug fix commits that went towards repairing things (I vaguely recall holds being broken by the labels for a bit?)
10:19 jeff_ i don't know that we have a specific rule of thumb for accessability backports. if the patch applies cleanly, then it could be as simple as the release maintainers for pre-2.4 accepting the pull request. if it's not a clean backport without additional work, someone will need to put in that work to make the backport more likely.
10:19 jeff_ (might check with the release maintainer(s) before starting that work, though)
10:20 * bshum agrees with jeff_
10:22 kmlussier ok, thanks. I've heard a report that Jaws isn't working on a 2.3 catalog, and I haven't pinned down yet if it's related to this bug or not. If it is, we may need to do some work on getting part of the fix work for 2.3 anyway.
10:23 * kmlussier suspects it might be related to autosuggest after reading the bug report.
10:23 * bshum went to google jaws and found sharks first :P
10:26 paxed anyone able to give me a hand with creating search filters. this is what i've got: http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/10
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10:31 Topic for #evergreen is now Welcome to the #evergreen library system channel! | We are publicly logged. | Large pastes at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org
10:31 bshum Uh oh
10:32 phasefx there's only one _bott_1 that we really care about
10:33 phasefx pinesol_green`: sorry dude
10:33 pinesol_green` phasefx: http://wonder-tonic.com/geocitiesizer/content.ph​p?theme=2&amp;music=6&amp;url=evergreen-ils.org
10:33 * _bott_1 wonders why I'm _bott_1 today
10:33 bshum I wonder if the webserver is having unhappiness again.
10:33 bshum Or maybe it's freenode, I know there's been some network issues.
10:34 Dyrcona bshum: It must have a pain in all the diodes on its left side.
10:36 StephenGWills is there a setting or someones project that allows us to select multiple  items from a search result set and save all the selected to a book bag?
10:36 jeff_ StephenGWills: none that i am aware of.
10:37 paxed bshum: re. bug 1098189, i think i messed up with updating the branch to master ...
10:37 pinesol_green` Launchpad bug 1098189 in Evergreen "Clean up translatable strings in templates" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1098189
10:37 bshum StephenGWills: I don't think there's any LP wishlist like that yet either.
10:38 Dyrcona Was that a feature in JSPAC, or is it something I had in my previous ILS?
10:38 * Dyrcona swears he was able to do that once.
10:38 bshum I think it used to be part of the dropdown in JSPAC
10:38 bshum Like actions for selected items or something.
10:38 bshum But I could be wrong :)
10:43 kmlussier Dyrcona/bshum: Yeah, it was part of jspac.
10:44 bshum Add it to the long list ;)
10:44 bshum I guess.
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10:51 jeff_ kmlussier: was there ever a (stock) add multiple items to a list (formerly bookbag) in jspac? i'm looking at a 2.2 stock skin, and I don't see it.
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10:55 kmlussier jeff_: Hmmm...now that you mention it, maybe I am misremembering. Because you could only add to the bookbag from the title record, right?
10:55 jeff_ that's what i recall, and what i'm seeing.
10:55 jeff_ but i had to double-check. :-)
10:56 kmlussier OK, sorry. I misspoke. :)
10:56 * kmlussier wanders off to complete JAWS installation.
10:57 jeff_ kmlussier++
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11:42 Topic for #evergreen is now Welcome to the #evergreen library system channel! | We are publicly logged. | Large pastes at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org
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11:42 Dyrcona Yep. That's what it looks like.
11:43 Dyrcona bshum++
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11:48 eeevil Dyrcona: yes, monday. the comment on the table says so, IIRC
11:48 * eeevil checks
11:48 eeevil hrm... no comment in my instance here
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11:56 Topic for #evergreen is now Welcome to the #evergreen library system channel! | We are publicly logged. | Large pastes at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org
11:56 paxed eeevil: this doesn't seem to create a working filter: http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/10  - any idea what i'm doing wrong?
11:56 jeff_ eeevil: yeah, that's what i tried first. nothing. guessing the comments came about after the db did.
11:57 jeff_ eeevil: and confirmed. i have the comments in another db. :-)
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12:08 StephenGWills I have a request to sort results by call number so that results fall into types?  Where is the wish list so I can stop bugging y'all until I know my requests are new?
12:09 StephenGWills i was looking in launchpad but am still a n00b there.
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12:11 paxed StephenGWills: in advanced search, there's the "wishlist" under "importance" heading...
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12:25 eeevil paxed: it looks ok to me, but I haven't tested it
12:25 paxed the material() sees only the full 007 field, not the one character from pos 1
12:30 eeevil this won't address that, but start_pos is 0-based
12:30 paxed yes, and i'm looking for the 2nd character.
12:30 eeevil ah, ok
12:39 paxed eeevil: do i need to explicitly do something so eg. the 007/1 will get indexed? bib reingest should be enough?
12:42 eeevil paxed: it's presence in the record_attr_definition table does that. you should see the values in the HSTORE that lives in metabib.record_attr.attrs with the key "material"
12:43 paxed hm. i don't see it there.
12:44 paxed err, derp, yeah, it's there
12:45 paxed but it's the value of the whole 007 field, not just that one char.
12:48 eeevil paxed: that's probably leftovers from the previous attempt...
12:49 paxed oh? hm... how do i purge those?
12:50 eeevil what does the following return for you? SELECT biblio.marc21_extract_fixed_field( $bibid, 'material'); -- replace $bibid with an appropriate bib id
12:51 eeevil to purge material, UPDATE metabib.record_attr SET attrs = attrs - 'material';
12:51 paxed that returns just one char, correctly
12:52 eeevil cool. so, I guess, purge and then reingest a couple records. then search for "material(x)" (no quotes, replace "x") to test
12:52 paxed # UPDATE metabib.record_attr SET attrs = attrs - 'material';
12:52 paxed ERROR:  Unexpected end of string
12:53 eeevil maybe got smartquotes from cut/paste?
12:53 paxed no
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12:54 eeevil dunno then. I haven't seen that happen
12:54 eeevil http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.2/​static/hstore.html#HSTORE-OP-TABLE is where I got that construct
12:56 paxed UPDATE metabib.record_attr SET attrs = delete(attrs, 'material');   ...i think that works, or at least it's doing something :)
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13:12 moodaepo_nb @help later
13:12 pinesol_green` moodaepo_nb: Error: There is no command "later".
13:13 bshum @list later
13:13 pinesol_green` bshum: notes, remove, and tell
13:13 * bshum points at proper supybot syntax for moodaepo_nb
13:13 bshum :)
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13:19 rfrasur a little silly...but just a little.
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13:26 moodaepo_nb bshum: thanks!
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13:39 rfrasur In the reports interface, right now, even if you select more than one output, it will only allow you to view the first one selected.  Is there a possibility to, if you select multiple outputs, open them each in their own tab simultaneously?
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13:42 * bshum saw "reports interface" and went screaming for the hills!!
13:43 rfrasur lol - yes, I know...but it's what we have to work with
13:45 bshum I'm not sure it's possible to do what you're asking right now.  I imagine that'd be some sort of enhancement.
13:45 rfrasur okay
13:46 bshum Interesting idea though.
13:46 rfrasur I'm just thinking that in the circulation module (as it were), when you bring up recent borrowers for an item, you can select to open all of their accounts (I'm not sure what the number is), and they open simultaneously.
13:47 rfrasur But I suspect the two modules are distant cousins.
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14:06 * Dyrcona suspects that applying the term "module" to Evergreen's functional units is a bit of a misnomer.
14:06 bshum Heh
14:09 rfrasur yeah, but i dunno what else to call it.
14:09 rfrasur and it's what people in our consortium say...so, I choose not to argue that point.
14:10 rfrasur am still trying to convince librarians there's a difference between wireless internet and other internet broadcast wirelessly through a local access point.
14:10 * rfrasur is losing the battle.
14:12 rfrasur (though I guess when you get right down to it...n/m)
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14:14 pastebot "Dyrcona" at 204.193.129.146 pasted "Copies with weird deposit_amount" (5 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/11
14:15 * Dyrcona sympathizes with rfrasur.
14:15 rfrasur It's cool though.  I get to work in a library which is way better than a lot of other jobs out there.
14:16 * Dyrcona wonders if that is better than working at a consortium's central site.
14:18 rfrasur hmm, it depends on the day
14:18 rfrasur There are days when I have to shut my door and ignore humanity.  But there are other days when there are little kids running in and out of here and people stopping by and those can be pretty good days.
14:19 * rfrasur isn't QUITE ready to give up.
14:19 jeff_ Dyrcona: looks like one of our QA reports.
14:19 jeff_ which reminds me, I need to upgrade jasper server.
14:20 jeff_ (to fix a bug with "don't send reports via email if there's no data in them" -- somewhat critical for QA reports)
14:26 paxed eeevil: i can't get the damn thing to work. the "material" doesn't show up in the metabib.record_attr.attrs at all now.
14:27 paxed ohh. i guess i should set tag to null in config.record_attr_definition.
14:29 Dyrcona rfrasur++
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14:34 eeevil paxed: indeed ... I thought your stored proc removed the filter altogether to start with, though?
14:36 paxed well, i messed with it afterwards trying all kinds o stuff, so that tag was left over ...
14:42 rfrasur (Have I also mentioned trying to train staff to use spreadsheets in a way that they can actually be used for more than list making?)
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14:47 paxed eeevil: nope can't get it working :(
14:49 pastebot "paxed" at 204.193.129.146 pasted "evergreen=# select * from conf" (19 lines) at http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/12
14:49 paxed eeevil: ^
14:50 eeevil paxed: very strange, because the others work ... perhaps set default_val to " " (space)
14:51 eeevil of course, that only comes into play when the value doesn't exist
14:53 paxed default_val = " " didn't help.
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14:58 paxed @roulette
14:58 pinesol_green` paxed: *click*
14:58 paxed frustration.
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15:02 eeevil paxed: oh, hrm... did you enable the ingest.reingest.force_on_same_marc global flag?
15:02 eeevil silly question, I know ... just want to make sure
15:03 paxed yes
15:07 rfrasur Today, one of my new employees is earning her salt.  She's running the Minecraft program w/ a group of boys.  I can install software, but am just not a gamer.
15:07 * rfrasur prefers analog legos
15:08 eeevil paxed: so, there's already a sophisticated 007 parser. what, in particular, are you trying to accomplish? SMD filtering, I believe?
15:09 paxed eeevil: it started as a learning experience, now i'm just trying to get this working. SMD? what 007 parser?
15:10 kmlussier dbs: Have you loaded the fixes from https://bugs.launchpad.net/evergreen/+bug/1155278 to your production server? I was using your catalog for comparison when testing a problem here, but then remembered you're not on 2.4 yet.
15:10 pinesol_green` Launchpad bug 1155278 in Evergreen "TPAC: Accessibility audit compliance" (affected: 3, heat: 14) [Undecided,Fix released]
15:11 * kmlussier wonders if there are any production systems using both 2.4 and auto suggest.
15:11 eeevil 007/01 (second character in 007) is described as the SMD field for ... well ... it looks like all record types. http://www.oclc.org/bibforma​ts/en/0xx/field007table.html (easier to read, IMO, than the LOC version)
15:11 kmlussier Ooh! Looks like SC LENDS is.
15:12 paxed eeevil: well, i usually read the marc21 format in finnish, so i wouldn't know/remember what "SMD" stands for.
15:12 dbs kmlussier: our test server ( http://laurentian-test.concat.ca ) has that loaded - and I think I did apply it to our production server, but can't recall for sure
15:13 kmlussier dbs: Ok, I'll look there too. Thanks!
15:13 eeevil paxed: gotcha, fair enough. so, you were looking for the 007/01 on a particular record type originally, what was that type?
15:14 dbs kmlussier: IIRC, autosuggest is a massive pain for accessibility; at least in our implementation, where Dojo dijits don't even make ARIA a viable option
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15:14 dbs also, advanced search is a complete mess for accessibility. "you are in a maze of twisty little boxes, all alike"
15:14 paxed eeevil: computer files
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15:15 eeevil paxed: ok, so, where 007/00 = c, correct?
15:15 paxed eeevil: so what filter gets the 007/01?  yes
15:16 dbs kmlussier: http://www-test.concat.ca/ is closer to stock than our LU skin
15:16 kmlussier Yes, that's what I'm finding. C/W MARS modified their searchbar.tt2 based on your changes, but it still seems to be problematic in IE and Chrome. I'm not sure if was the problem with the way we patched it or if further work is needed.
15:17 * kmlussier hasn't even looked at advanced search yet. :P
15:17 dbs kmlussier: I couldn't easily fix the problem that autosuggest introduces, so I didn't
15:17 dbs with autosuggest disabled, I think it's slightly better :/
15:18 * paxed wonders how well screen readers handle eg opac
15:18 kmlussier dbs: OK, then. So it's a known issue that users with a screen reader can't do a search when autosuggest is enabled?
15:18 dbs paxed: pretty well, with the exception of the autosuggest
15:19 eeevil righto ... so we'll model this after the videorecording format filter that exists already.  discarding all your existing filters and fixed field defs, insert instead: INSERT INTO config.record_attr_definition (name,label,phys_char_sf) values ('com_smd','Computer Files Material Type',(SELECT id FROM config.marc21_physical_characteristic_subfield_map WHERE ptype_key = 'c' and subfield = 'b' LIMIT 1));
15:19 paxed dbs: i consider autosuggest an abomination.
15:19 kmlussier With autosuggest disabeld, it seems to work fairly well. But, then again, I'm not a user of screen readers and may be missing something.
15:19 eeevil paxed: last was for you...
15:20 dbs kmlussier: I dunno if all screen readers are incapable, or if there's a JAWS workaround etc, but I do know that the accessibility audit doesn't have a SEVERE alert when autosuggest is disabled
15:20 bshum Does anyone else have an opinion on including javascript in tt2 files?  Reviewing bug 1164720 and not sure how it wouldn't continue to behave oddly with non-JS browsers.
15:20 pinesol_green` Launchpad bug 1164720 in Evergreen "Do not allow a list to be created with no name" (affected: 1, heat: 6) [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1164720
15:20 eeevil paxed: after a restart/reingest, you'll have a new filter spelled: com_smd()
15:21 dbs kmlussier: an alternative may be for screen reader users to disable javascript; that effectively disables autosuggest and not much else (depending on added content, etc)
15:21 kmlussier dbs: This morning, I used Chrome's accessibility add-on and had no trouble. It may just be a JAWS issue, but, then again, JAWS has a big share of the market.
15:21 dbs kmlussier: yeah, understood. I can't recall if I checked the recent Dojo version to see if that issue had been addressed
15:23 paxed eeevil: ok, now how do i do a filter for any type of record, or do i have to make a different filter name for each type of record?
15:23 kmlussier dbs: Thanks for the info. So it sounds like disabling java or using Firefox are some workarounds for the time being. I'll test try some tests with java disabled.
15:23 eeevil dbs: I believe ARIA is surfaced much better in modern dojo's
15:25 eeevil paxed: the values in 007/01 overlap across record types ("a" means different things based on 007/00), so the short answer is "yes, a filter per type". that being said, what you've been trying to do /should/ work, so figuring out why it's not would be good, because then you could do it with a single filter on 007/00 with a length of 2
15:26 paxed eeevil: com_smd should show in metabib.record_attr attrs, right?
15:26 eeevil it should, yes
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15:28 paxed hm, perhaps there were no computer files in the limited reingest.
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15:29 eeevil select record from metabib.full_rec where tag = '007' and value like 'c%' limit 10;
15:36 dbs kmlussier: javascript! disable javascript! java's a whole other thing; just uninstall java entirely :)
15:36 paxed eeevil: nope, no com_smd in metabib.record_attr.attrs
15:38 kmlussier dbs: Bleh! Sorry, I knew that but wansn't even paying attention to what I was typing. :)
15:38 kmlussier Java is what I was drinking from my cup when I was typing.
15:39 dbs hah
15:41 paxed eeevil: if you've got time, would you like to look into this yourself on the server?
15:42 * rfrasur updated java on a bunch of computers this morning with the hope that it'd leave me alone forever.
15:51 eeevil paxed: I would, but I won't have time this afternoon (evening for you, I know).  can we try tomorrow earlier in the day?
15:53 paxed eeevil: sure
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17:20 jeff_ who in the community is currently using/relying on legacy circ scripts? sitka and Indiana?
17:24 phasefx conifer I think
17:26 phasefx kent
17:41 jihpringle jeff_: at Sitka we no longer use legacy circ and we should be off all legacy hold scripts by July 2
17:41 jeff_ jihpringle: ah, thanks!
17:41 jihpringle np
17:42 jeff_ I was just musing on what it would look like to kill SpiderMonkey and implement scripts (in a different form) under plv8.
17:42 jeff_ somewhat idle musing.
17:45 gmcharlt jeff_: who would use it?
17:45 jeff_ gmcharlt: well, apparently not sitka. :-)
17:46 gmcharlt I can't say I'd be terribly excited about the prospect of it just to extend the life of circ scripts
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