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<h1>IRC log for #evergreen, 2013-10-25</h1>
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<th>Time</th>
<th>Nick</th>
<th>Message</th>
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<tr id="id_l2" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42523"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42523">04:59</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">kayals_ joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l3" class="cont special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42524"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42524">06:38</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">kbeswick joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l4" class="cont special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42525"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42525">07:37</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">rjackson-isl joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l5" class="cont special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42526"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42526">07:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">jboyer-isl joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l6" class="cont special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42527"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42527">07:50</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">jboyer-isl joined #evergreen</td>
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<td class="time" id="i_42528"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42528">08:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">adbowling-isl joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l8" class="cont special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42529"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42529">08:27</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">Shae joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l9" class="cont special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42530"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42530">08:31</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">timlaptop joined #evergreen</td>
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<td class="time" id="i_42531"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42531">08:34</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">kbeswick joined #evergreen</td>
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<td class="time" id="i_42532"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42532">08:39</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">akilsdonk joined #evergreen</td>
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<td class="time" id="i_42534"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42534">08:45</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l13" class="cont special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42535"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42535">08:51</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">mmorgan joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l14" class="cont special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42536"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42536">09:05</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">ericar joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l15" class="new nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42537"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42537">09:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">Seems like it shoul be possible to block a patron for an invalid mailing address, is it?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l16" class="new nick nick_tsbere dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42538"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42538">09:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #8da81a" class="nick">tsbere</td>
<td class="msg ">mmorgan: You can block for anything you want. Automatically block for is a different story...</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l17" class="new nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42539"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42539">09:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">I do mean automatically...</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l18" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42540"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42540">09:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l19" class="new nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42541"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42541">09:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">In the INVALID_PATRON_ADDRESS standing penalty, I added a block list and changed staff_alert to TRUE, but it doesn't do anything.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l20" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42542"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42542">09:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">mmorgan: did you confirm that the penalty shows up on the patron account?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l21" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42543"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42543">09:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">mmorgan: are you manually adding the penalty?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l22" class="new nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42544"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42544">09:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">The penalty doesn't show up on the patron account. I didn't add it manually.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l23" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42545"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42545">09:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">typically that penalty is added when a patron is saved and they have an address marked "invalid", but only if the org unit setting circ.patron_invalid_address_apply_penalty is set.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l24" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42546"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42546">09:20</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">have you checked that org unit setting?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l25" class="new nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42547"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42547">09:20</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">That's what I was hoping to do. I'll check the org unit setting.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l26" class="cont nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42548"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42548">09:26</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">Ok, fixed the org setting, but I'm not seeing a penalty get added when I invalidate an address. Is there anything else to check?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l27" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42549"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42549">09:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">is your INVALID_PATRON_ADDRESS penalty id 29 in config.standing_penalty?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l28" class="new nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42550"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42550">09:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">Yes, it is id 29</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l29" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42551"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42551">09:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">After retrieving a patron, then marking an address as invalid and saving the patron, did you refresh or re-retrieve the patron in a new tab, and you don't see the invalid address penalty?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l30" class="new nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42552"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42552">09:32</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">Yes, I retrieved a patron, unchecked the "valid address" checkbox and saved. Then re-retrieved the patron, even logged out and in again. I see (Invalid Address) in red below the patron's name, but no penalty :-(</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l31" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42553"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42553">09:34</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">odd. if you query the database, can you see an invalid address penalty for that patron? SELECT * FROM actor.usr_standing_penalty WHERE usr = 123 AND standing_penalty = 29;</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l32" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42554"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42554">09:35</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">if you see it in the db but not in the staff client, you might be running into a user home_ou vs workstation ws_ou combined with depth of penalty issue.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l33" class="new nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42555"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42555">09:37</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">Yes! it is in the usr_standing_penalty table.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l34" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42556"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42556">09:38</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">aha. so, next question... what is the depth of the penalty as configured -- SELECT org_depth FROM config.standing_penalty WHERE id = 28;</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l35" class="new nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42557"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42557">09:38</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">org_depth for the penalty is blank. If I want it to appear everywhere, should I set it to 0?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l36" class="cont nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42558"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42558">09:39</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">SELECT org_depth FROM config.standing_penalty WHERE id = 28 gives me NULL</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l37" class="cont nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42559"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42559">09:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">AHA! Working now! I did set the org depth to 0 and that did the trick.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l38" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42560"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42560">09:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">What is the org_unit value for the actor.usr_standing_penalty entry for that user for standing_penalty 28?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l39" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42561"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42561">09:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">sounds reasonable!</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l40" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42562"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42562">09:43</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">i expect that the entry in actor.usr_standing_penalty for standing_penalty 28 for that user had an org_unit value of the user's home_ou, and that likely was different from your workstation ou.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l41" class="new nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42563"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42563">09:45</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">yes, the workstation ou is different from the patron's home ou. A lot of the standing penalties have no value in org_depth. Sounds like they should have a value there.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l42" class="cont nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42564"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42564">09:46</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">I will need to think on that. Thanks jeff!! You have been extremely helpful!</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l43" class="cont nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42565"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42565">09:46</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l44" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42566"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42566">09:50</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">mmorgan: you're welcome!</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l45" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42567"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42567">09:56</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">I am wondering about useful defaults for org_depth, especially on that particular penalty.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l46" class="new special">
<td class="time" id="i_42568"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42568">10:01</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">yboston joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l47" class="new nick nick_mmorgan dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42569"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42569">10:03</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">Useful defaults for the org_depth on the standing penalties would be, well, useful.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l48" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42570"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42570">10:04</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">I'm trying to think of any cases where a null depth is useful for that penalty.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l49" class="new nick nick_mmorgan dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42571"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42571">10:05</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">I would think that the standing penalties should work in some predictable manner out of the box. I'm not sure what the NULL does there - except make it not work predictably.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l50" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42572"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42572">10:06</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">in the case of this penalty, the null depth means that the invalid address penalty is set at the user's home library, and no higher.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l51" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42573"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42573">10:07</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">so if you retrieved that patron on a workstation associated with that patron's home library, you'd have seen the penalty, received the alert, circ would have been blocked, etc.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l52" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42574"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42574">10:07</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">actually, the block might have taken effect on a wider scale.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l53" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42575"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42575">10:07</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">i'd have to research.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l54" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42576"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42576">10:08</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">i know that there was (at least at one time) a bug where you could have penalties that blocked but did not display in the staff client.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l55" class="new nick nick_tsbere dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42577"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42577">10:08</a></td>
<td style="color: #8da81a" class="nick">tsbere</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: At this point I think you can do that intentionally...</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l56" class="new nick nick_mmorgan">
<td class="time" id="i_42578"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42578">10:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">So, for this penalty, would the NULL act the same way as if the org_depth were set at 3 (assuming the patron's home ou is at that depth)?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l57" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42579"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42579">10:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">yes. the null in this case just says "don't do any depth adjustment when setting the penalty"</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l58" class="new nick nick_tsbere">
<td class="time" id="i_42580"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42580">10:11</a></td>
<td style="color: #8da81a" class="nick">tsbere</td>
<td class="msg ">null depth I think means "use workstation library when it is set", not the home library...</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l59" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42581"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42581">10:11</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">tsbere: it depends on if you're setting manually. in this case, it was a system set (at update user time) penalty.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l60" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42582"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42582">10:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">but tsbere raises a good point. if you had set the penalty manually from the staff client, it would have been set at your workstation_ou, with no adjustment for depth.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l61" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42583"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42583">10:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">from the perl code where this penalty is set, the logic is:</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l62" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42584"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42584">10:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">my $ctx_org = $U->org_unit_ancestor_at_depth($patron->home_ou, $depth) if defined $depth;</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l63" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42585"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42585">10:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">$ctx_org = $patron->home_ou unless defined $ctx_org;</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l64" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42586"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42586">10:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg "></td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l65" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42587"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42587">10:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">and $depth here is the value from config.standing_penalty.org_depth</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l66" class="new nick nick_tsbere">
<td class="time" id="i_42588"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42588">10:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #8da81a" class="nick">tsbere</td>
<td class="msg ">ok</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l67" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42589"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42589">10:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">alexlazar joined #evergreen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l68" class="new nick nick_tsbere">
<td class="time" id="i_42590"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42590">10:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #8da81a" class="nick">tsbere</td>
<td class="msg ">didn't know that part of the code did the check that way, I was thinking of other code I poked at recently</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l69" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42591"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42591">10:23</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">mrpeters joined #evergreen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l70" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42592"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42592">10:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">Anyone know the DB flag that makes the staff client show red unpaid fines? We have some actor.usr rows that show in the staff client as good standing even though they clearing have a bill</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l71" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42593"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42593">10:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">s/clearing/clearly/g</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l72" class="new nick nick_mmorgan dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42594"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42594">10:32</a></td>
<td style="color: #00b65f" class="nick">mmorgan</td>
<td class="msg ">Our fines show red if the amount exceeds the group penalty threshold, not if it's under.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l73" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42595"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42595">10:35</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: where in the staff client are you expecting to see the red color?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l74" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42596"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42596">10:36</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">on the patron screen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l75" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42597"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42597">10:36</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">lookup patron by barcode, type barcode, press enter, the resulting screen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l76" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42598"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42598">10:36</a></td>
<td style="color: #001597" class="nick">* rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg act ">really wants an on-site maintenance person.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l77" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42599"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42599">10:37</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: okay, where exactly on that screen?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l78" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42600"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42600">10:38</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">The rectangle around the name of the patron I guess. We expect it to at least alert "unpaid fines" without having to look at the bills section</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l79" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42601"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42601">10:39</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: I believe it does that already.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l80" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42602"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42602">10:39</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: you should see a (Has bills) indicator beneath the patron and a dollar amount under Bills, as well as a dollar amount in the patron summary labeled Bills: -- do you not see any of those?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l81" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42603"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42603">10:39</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">These bills were inserted into the DB directly using sql. Not using the fine_generator. I assume that we missed something</td>
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<tr id="id_l82" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42604"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42604">10:40</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: If you don't see something like (Maximum Bills) or a specific color around the patron, you may find that the Refresh button will cause those to show up -- in that case, it's a matter of the system-maintained penalties needing to be re-calculated.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l83" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42605"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42605">10:40</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">we do not get that (Has Bills)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l84" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42606"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42606">10:40</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Ah. I'd assume you missed something also.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l85" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42607"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42607">10:40</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">refresh does not create that alert</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l86" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42608"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42608">10:40</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">In this case, I would no longer expect it to.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l87" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42609"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42609">10:40</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: You have voided your Evergreen warranty. We cannot help you. :p</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l88" class="new special">
<td class="time" id="i_42610"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42610">10:40</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">RoganH joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l89" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42611"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42611">10:41</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">:)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l90" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42612"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42612">10:41</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Some of us are willing to try, though. :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l91" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42613"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42613">10:41</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">we had incorrect loan rules when we migrated the data in</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l92" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42614"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42614">10:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">we corrected the loan rules, then removed all of the auto generated fines</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l93" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42615"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42615">10:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">and ran fine_generator again</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l94" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42616"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42616">10:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">basically</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l95" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42617"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42617">10:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Evergreen_Warranty++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l96" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42618"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42618">10:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: start with examining the entries in money.materialized_billable_xact_summary that have a usr column matching the user id you are examining.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l97" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42619"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42619">10:43</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">alrighty</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l98" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42620"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42620">10:43</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">see if the values match with reality.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l99" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42621"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42621">10:43</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: Did you do the above or did you insert the billings with SQL?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l100" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42622"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42622">10:43</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">and also, how did you remove all of the auto generated fines?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l101" class="new nick nick_RoganH">
<td class="time" id="i_42623"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42623">10:44</a></td>
<td style="color: #040002" class="nick">RoganH</td>
<td class="msg ">I'm in the middle of a meeting and have a quick "is this viable" question. I haven't done much with the OPAC search features in a while but can I have the default search in staff client exclude an item form?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l102" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42624"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42624">10:44</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">delete from money.billing where xact=(select xact from money.billable_xact where............</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l103" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42625"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42625">10:45</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff Bmagic Looks like that would do it provided the subquery is correct.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l104" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42626"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42626">10:45</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">we are happy with the results</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l105" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42627"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42627">10:45</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: Did you also reset the stop-fines etc, on the transactions.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l106" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42628"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42628">10:45</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">weeks later, we find that there is this (Has Bills) issue</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l107" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42629"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42629">10:46</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">yep</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l108" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42630"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42630">10:46</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Um, this conference is giving 2-3 day attendees a Google Chromebook...and 2 day registration is $325. You basically get the conference for $25.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l109" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42631"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42631">10:46</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg "><a href="https://hecc.k12.in.us/conference/" title="https://hecc.k12.in.us/conference/">https://hecc.k12.in.us/conference/</a></td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l110" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42632"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42632">10:48</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">RoganH: quick response is, maybe, but bordering on the maybe not side of maybe. what exactly do you mean by item form, and what's the underlying idea?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l111" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42633"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42633">10:48</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: what version of Evergreen are you on?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l112" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42634"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42634">10:48</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: 2.4.2</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l113" class="new nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42635"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42635">10:49</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: Chromebooks have become pretty good recently; my wife has been using the first commercially available one (Samsung series 5 from 2011) as her primary laptop for the past year</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l114" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42636"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42636">10:49</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: correction 2.4.1</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l115" class="new nick nick_RoganH dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42637"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42637">10:50</a></td>
<td style="color: #040002" class="nick">RoganH</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: evergreen 2.4 one library has a lot of electronic holdings added and they're marked in the 007 with the c but it's flooding seaches in opac for other libraries</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l116" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42638"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42638">10:50</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs: I've been rolling the idea around of getting 5 or 6 to loan out to patrons. So long as they have decent internet connection (which of course they do) and access to some decent productivity software...they're a nice, inexpensive solution.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l117" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42639"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42639">10:51</a></td>
<td style="color: #001597" class="nick">* rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg act ">happens to also be a bit of a Samsung fangirl</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l118" class="new special">
<td class="time" id="i_42640"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42640">10:51</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">DPearl1 joined #evergreen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l119" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42641"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42641">10:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: the (Has bills) indicator in the staff client uses an API call that consults the view money.materialized_billable_xact_summary</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l120" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42642"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42642">10:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">er.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l121" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42643"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42643">10:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">scratch that. mispaste.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l122" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42644"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42644">10:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">I think my problem is a row needs to be in actor.usr_standing_penalty</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l123" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42645"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42645">10:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">the API call uses the database view money.open_usr_summary which is based on the materialized view money.materialized_billable_xact_summary</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l124" class="new nick nick_dbs">
<td class="time" id="i_42646"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42646">10:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: yeah, I'm away from the day-to-day business of our library at the moment, but as soon as the Acer C720 or HP 11 are available in Canada I'm going to suggest we buy those instead of trying to keep ailing Windows-based laptops running</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l125" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42647"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42647">10:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l126" class="new special">
<td class="time" id="i_42648"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42648">10:54</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">DPearl joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l127" class="new nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42649"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42649">10:54</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">(our university adopted Google Apps recently so the students should even be able to log into their proper accounts!)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l128" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42650"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42650">10:55</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">We have TWO (pointless) laptops of the clunky Toshiba traditional HD variety...from 2009 which we could use for staff...and stop pretending that people are borrowing them for college homework...</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l129" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42651"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42651">10:55</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">They're borrowing them to get on Facebook...and a Chromebook would be more than enough for that.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l130" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42652"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42652">10:55</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: ok, I think your right: select * from money.open_usr_summary where usr = (select id from actor.usr where usrname='xxxxx')</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l131" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42653"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42653">10:56</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: the (Has bills) indicator in the staff client does not depend on any standing penalties being set.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l132" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42654"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42654">10:56</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs: I'm trying desperately to now force our patrons/staff to go to all Google all the time...but it's hard when the products are so good and so cheap (usually free).</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l133" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42655"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42655">10:56</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">The red box does, like patron exceeds fines, or lost items and so on.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l134" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42656"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42656">10:56</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: yup</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l135" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42657"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42657">10:56</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: So, the question is, how do I get the DB to re-calculate money.open_usr_summary ?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l136" class="new nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42658"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42658">10:56</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: Agreed - assuming you mean "not" instead of "now" :)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l137" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42659"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42659">10:57</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs: s/now/not</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l138" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42660"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42660">10:57</a></td>
<td style="color: #032c28" class="nick">* Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg act ">suspects Google of being clandestinely evil.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l139" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42661"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42661">10:57</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">hah! snow not. snow snot. squirrel. Okay...must go administer.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l140" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42662"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42662">10:58</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: come to the dark side.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l141" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42663"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42663">10:58</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">I have an Android phone, so..... I'm already there.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l142" class="new nick nick_rfrasur_administ">
<td class="time" id="i_42664"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42664">10:59</a></td>
<td style="color: #002245" class="nick">rfrasur_administ</td>
<td class="msg ">At least we get red light sabres...sabers...thingies.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l143" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42665"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42665">10:59</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: if you have time and means to pick a user, obscure the user details per your preferences, and paste the output of some queries, let me know.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l144" class="new nick nick_dbs">
<td class="time" id="i_42666"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42666">10:59</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: casually evil, maybe</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l145" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42667"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42667">10:59</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: alternately, if you're talking about a small enough batch of users/transactions that you don't care about re-creating every row in that materialized view, let me know that too. :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l146" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42668"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42668">11:00</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">this cant be done in mass?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l147" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42669"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42669">11:00</a></td>
<td style="color: #032c28" class="nick">* Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg act ">wonders if "casually evil" is meant to be "better" than just evil.....</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l148" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42670"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42670">11:01</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: no, it should be able to be done i a big batch... it's just i don't know what "big" means in your case.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l149" class="new nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42671"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42671">11:02</a></td>
<td style="color: #800064" class="nick">* dbs</td>
<td class="msg act ">steps away from the "evil" discussion to avoid diminishing the impact that real evil has had on the world historically</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l150" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42672"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42672">11:03</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: doing some digging is probably required to see what's wrong before just attempting to re-generate the rows in money.materialized_billable_xact_summary</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l151" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42673"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42673">11:05</a></td>
<td style="color: #032c28" class="nick">* Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg act ">agrees with jeff.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l152" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42674"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42674">11:06</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">select usr,total_paid,total_owed,balance_owed,(select sum(amount) from money.billing where xact in(select id from money.billable_xact where usr=a.usr)) from money.open_usr_summary a where balance_owed=0 and usr in(select id from actor.usr where home_ou in(148,150))</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l153" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42675"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42675">11:07</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">seems to show me the 0 balance people against the total of money.billing</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l154" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42676"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42676">11:07</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">RBecker joined #evergreen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l155" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42677"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42677">11:08</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: do the transactions in question have corresponding rows in money.materialized_billable_xact_summary?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l156" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42678"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42678">11:08</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">yes</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l157" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42679"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42679">11:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">looks like I am talking about 209 users that have balance=0 when money.billing adds up to > 0</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l158" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42680"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42680">11:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">I don't think deleting from money.billing affects money.materialized_billable_xact_summary does it?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l159" class="cont nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42681"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42681">11:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">That could be out of whack.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l160" class="cont nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42682"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42682">11:11</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Someone should look at the triggers again to verify either way.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l161" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42683"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42683">11:11</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">there's a trigger that should account for that: CREATE TRIGGER mat_summary_del_tgr BEFORE DELETE ON money.billing FOR EACH ROW EXECUTE PROCEDURE money.materialized_summary_billing_del ();</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l162" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42684"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42684">11:11</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">(i'm consulting rel_2_4, not Bmagic's live db)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l163" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42685"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42685">11:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">OK. I would have looked at my development db.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l164" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42686"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42686">11:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">now that the formerly not-materialized view just points at the materialized view, i don't think that there's an easy way to re-gen mmbxs.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l165" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42687"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42687">11:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">it's not as simple as update balanced_owed?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l166" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42688"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42688">11:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">though if the rows exist in mmbxs, in theory you could force a run of the update trigger by adding a zero billing. :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l167" class="new nick nick_eeevil">
<td class="time" id="i_42689"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42689">11:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #006b95" class="nick">eeevil</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: that can be regenerated ... sec</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l168" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42690"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42690">11:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">eeevil: thanks!</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l169" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42691"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42691">11:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">eeevil++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l170" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42692"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42692">11:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">I did a quick query to see where balanced_owed != sum(money.billing.amount) and found lots</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l171" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42693"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42693">11:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">well, keep in mind that the results of that query likely did not take into account payments.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l172" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42694"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42694">11:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">comparing sum(money.billing.amount) and money.materialized_billable_xact_summary.total_owed (i'm going to start calling it mmbxs again now) might be a useful comparison for you.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l173" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42695"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42695">11:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: Im slowly understanding more, and that dawned on me</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l174" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42696"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42696">11:20</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">for speed, the mmbxs table exists as a "materialized view" -- a view that isn't a view, but has triggers which are intended to keep it up to date as the data in other tables changes.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l175" class="new nick nick_eeevil">
<td class="time" id="i_42697"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42697">11:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #006b95" class="nick">eeevil</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: I LIED! at least, there's no way in the db, but 080.schema.money.sql has the spell to do it</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l176" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42698"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42698">11:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">in your case, i think the migration and post migration cleanup may have gotten it out of sync.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l177" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42699"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42699">11:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">eeevil: liar! :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l178" class="new nick nick_eeevil">
<td class="time" id="i_42700"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42700">11:22</a></td>
<td style="color: #006b95" class="nick">eeevil</td>
<td class="msg ">lines 215-260, just replace the CREATE TABLE with a TRUNCATE</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l179" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42701"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42701">11:23</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: as eeevil indicated, the source sql file 080.schema.money.sql should give you the info you need to rebuild that materialized view -- but i'd recommend caution. test on a non-production copy of your database, and read / understand / ask questions here until you're comfortable with doing it.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l180" class="new nick nick_dbs">
<td class="time" id="i_42702"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42702">11:24</a></td>
<td style="color: #800064" class="nick">* dbs</td>
<td class="msg act ">swore there was a "refresh materialized billable xact summary" function, too</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l181" class="new nick nick_eeevil dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42703"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42703">11:25</a></td>
<td style="color: #006b95" class="nick">eeevil</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs: I couldn't find it, but, yeah, I thought there was one</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l182" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42704"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42704">11:26</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: Right on. I'm working with test db right now. Just so I understand, the operation would be to delete all rows inside of the mmbxs , the recreate with the 080.schema.money.sql ?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l183" class="new nick nick_eeevil dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42705"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42705">11:26</a></td>
<td style="color: #006b95" class="nick">eeevil</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs: I bet we're thinking of the "simple record extracts" matview</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l184" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42706"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42706">11:26</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">I think it used to be "truncate mmbxs and insert from mbxs", but for a while now mbxs has just been a pointer to mmbxs.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l185" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42707"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42707">11:27</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: essentially, but you can use TRUNCATE on the mmbxs table, and you don't need all of that sql file to re-create things.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l186" class="new nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42708"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42708">11:27</a></td>
<td style="color: #800064" class="nick">* dbs</td>
<td class="msg act ">might have built a refresh_mmbxs function locally after a botched upgrade in the long past...</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l187" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42709"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42709">11:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs: that also rings a bell, i just thought it existed in at least an upgrade script -- i might also be thinking of part of 0174.schema.money.nulls-in-mmbxs-fix.sql</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l188" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42710"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42710">11:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">(which uses the truncate then insert from mbxs method)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l189" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42711"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42711">11:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">it will take me some time to have results, Thank you everyone for pointing me in the right direction!</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l190" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42712"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42712">11:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l191" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42713"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42713">11:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">good luck!</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l192" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42714"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42714">11:34</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">frank____ joined #evergreen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l193" class="new nick nick_frank____">
<td class="time" id="i_42715"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42715">11:35</a></td>
<td style="color: #403700" class="nick">frank____</td>
<td class="msg ">hi there, I'd want to know if someone knows why if I create another administrator account, this doesn't have the same permissions as the admin?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l194" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42716"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42716">11:38</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">frank____: in addition to the profile group for the user, there are explicit permissions and a user flag that can come into play on the original admin user. thereis a super_user field in actor.usr and an EVERYTHING permission.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l195" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42717"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42717">11:41</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">frank____: Users can also be added to extra groups via permission.usr_grp_map in the database. There's an interface in the GUI for that somewhere.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l196" class="cont nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42718"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42718">11:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">For instance, my profile is one thing that grants little permission, but by having an entry in usr_grp_map, I have more permissions.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l197" class="cont nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42719"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42719">11:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">If I know longer work here, that entry can be removed, and I am a regular user again.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l198" class="new nick nick_frank____ dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42720"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42720">11:44</a></td>
<td style="color: #403700" class="nick">frank____</td>
<td class="msg ">I have in usr_perm_map the flag -1 in the id user value</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l199" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42721"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42721">11:45</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">frank____: Does your new admin user have a usr_work_ou_map entry?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l200" class="cont nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42722"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42722">11:46</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">If not, add one. If so, the permission likely only applies at that ou and its children.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l201" class="cont nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42723"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42723">11:46</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">If you want it to apply everywhere, then set usr_work_ou_map to 1.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l202" class="new nick nick_frank____ dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42724"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42724">11:47</a></td>
<td style="color: #403700" class="nick">frank____</td>
<td class="msg ">OK, then do I have to run something?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l203" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42725"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42725">11:48</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">frank____: Might have to quit the client and then log back in.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l204" class="new nick nick_frank____ dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42726"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42726">11:51</a></td>
<td style="color: #403700" class="nick">frank____</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: I did it, but I can't get that the new admin user could edit an mfhd, It can create, but not update or delete</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l205" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42727"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42727">11:51</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">just as a troubleshooting step... can the existing/original admin user update or delete that same record?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l206" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42728"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42728">11:52</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">frank____: What version of Evergreen?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l207" class="new nick nick_frank____">
<td class="time" id="i_42729"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42729">11:52</a></td>
<td style="color: #403700" class="nick">frank____</td>
<td class="msg ">2.4.2</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l208" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42730"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42730">11:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Well, then it is probably not what I was thinking.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l209" class="new nick nick_frank____">
<td class="time" id="i_42731"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42731">11:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #403700" class="nick">frank____</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: yes</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l210" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42732"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42732">11:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">There was a bug that if permissions didn't exist, then even users with EVERYTHING could still not do them.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l211" class="cont nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42733"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42733">11:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">That was fixed long before 2.4.0, so....</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l212" class="new nick nick_frank____">
<td class="time" id="i_42734"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42734">11:56</a></td>
<td style="color: #403700" class="nick">frank____</td>
<td class="msg ">the weird part is that all the other permissions work fine</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l213" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42735"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42735">11:57</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">frank____: Can you paste any error messages you get to this page: <a href="http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/" title="http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/">http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/</a></td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l214" class="cont nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42736"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42736">11:57</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">be back in a few minutes. going to pick up some lunch.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l215" class="new nick nick_frank____">
<td class="time" id="i_42737"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42737">11:58</a></td>
<td style="color: #403700" class="nick">frank____</td>
<td class="msg ">thanks</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l216" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42738"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42738">12:37</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">kmlussier joined #evergreen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l217" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42739"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42739">12:52</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: so, new information, the xact_finish date seems to be my problem. The rows are there in mmbxs but they are not surfacing in money.open_usr_summary because xact_finish != null</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l218" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42740"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42740">12:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">ah!</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l219" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42741"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42741">12:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">yep, that would do it. closed transactions with non-zero balances.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l220" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42742"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42742">12:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: when does a transaction get closed?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l221" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42743"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42743">12:54</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">usually when it hits a zero balance -- AND when there is a checkin_time, in the case of circ transaction.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l222" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42744"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42744">12:54</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: When Jupiter aligns with Mars.... Oh wait. That's something else.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l223" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42745"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42745">12:54</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">:)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l224" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42746"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42746">12:55</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">If there is a zero balance when it is checked in, too. Just to be perfectly clear.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l225" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42747"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42747">12:56</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: i suspect you're running into things where they did not have fines, were checked in, then you added fines manually to the db.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l226" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42748"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42748">12:56</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">okay...does this sound crazy? having the library provide each and every staff member (in this case...9 employees...including pages) with some type of computing device...like either a nexus tablet or a chromebook? (not TOO expensive)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l227" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42749"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42749">12:56</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: Do they need it to do their job?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l228" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42750"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42750">12:57</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">of course. We work in a library.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l229" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42751"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42751">12:57</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: not unheard of. i've also heard of workplaces giving employees an equipment subsidy combined with a "bring your own device" program.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l230" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42752"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42752">12:57</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">If nothing else, they need to use them to know how to teach patrons.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l231" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42753"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42753">12:57</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: That is probably it, so, I need to nullify those? is that safe?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l232" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42754"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42754">12:58</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">so...in a perfect world...if you were doing something like that for your staff? and could choose between three devices...what three would you go with?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l233" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42755"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42755">12:59</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: off the top of my head, setting the affected entries in action.circulation to have a NULL xact_finish value should help you out here, yes.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l234" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42756"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42756">12:59</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">umm...in a perfect, cheapish world</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l235" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42757"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42757">12:59</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: would that trigger money.billable_xact to get the same update?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l236" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42758"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42758">12:59</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: yes, because action.circulation is a child table of money.billable_xact</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l237" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42759"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42759">13:00</a></td>
<td style="color: #032c28" class="nick">* Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg act ">doesn't work in an actual library and probably has a higher equipment budget than rfrasur, so won't answer.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l238" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42760"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42760">13:00</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: consider having one of each for staff to evaluate, and let them choose?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l239" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42761"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42761">13:00</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: forget the budget...and just think about entry levelish.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l240" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42762"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42762">13:01</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: also, it's worth doing a quick inventory of "these are the things that we can do on both the devices and on our library desktop/laptop computers"</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l241" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42763"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42763">13:01</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: Until there are decent Evergreen tools for Android, I would probably just get cheapish laptops.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l242" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42764"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42764">13:01</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: for example, without a remote desktop client or citrix client, you're not going to be running the full evergreen staff client on a chromebook or nexus today.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l243" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42765"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42765">13:02</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">I'm not worried about running the staff client on whatever it is.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l244" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42766"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42766">13:02</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">We have stuff already for that.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l245" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42767"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42767">13:02</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">just making sure. :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l246" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42768"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42768">13:02</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Well, what are these going to be used for?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l247" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42769"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42769">13:03</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Just because...and so they become more comfortable in the mobile (but not necessarily mobile connection), digital environment.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l248" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42770"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42770">13:04</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">So they understand the diff between the internet and internet explorer and email vs. an email client because they're practicing.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l249" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42771"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42771">13:05</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: Good luck with that!</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l250" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42772"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42772">13:05</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">So they can download a digital book/audiobook with ease. So they can communicate with all the people about all the things (okay...that's maybe a little much)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l251" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42773"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42773">13:06</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Buy them a bag of Dum-Dums.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l252" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42774"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42774">13:06</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">that'd be too obvious :D</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l253" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42775"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42775">13:07</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">ericar joined #evergreen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l254" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42776"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42776">13:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: and the idea is that the staff members would be taking the tablets home with them and therefore using the for fun and profit?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l255" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42777"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42777">13:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins: They'd be theirs to use with the stipulation that I'd be periodically assess their knowledge with it...and at the end of a year, they'd own it.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l256" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42778"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42778">13:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">I wouldn't actually look where they were surfing or anything...but just assess benchmarks (can you download an app from the app store...have you accessed your library account...or whatever).</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l257" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42779"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42779">13:11</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: Maybe I'm just a luddite, but I feel like after the first... week... the novelty would wear off, and I'd stop learning how to use it.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l258" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42780"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42780">13:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins: well...here's the thing. We're going to be instituting mandatory technology benchmarks that staff HAVE to meet...and I'm trying to go the positive reinforcement way rather than the negative consequence way (even though it'll still be there)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l259" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42781"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42781">13:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">Could you do some sort of rotation thing, so that everyone could try each one?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l260" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42782"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42782">13:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">a spoonful of sugar and all that.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l261" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42783"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42783">13:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">"mandatory technology benchmarks that staff HAVE to meet" That's a novel concept.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l262" class="new nick nick_jcamins dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42784"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42784">13:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">I mean, if you're giving them three options, how do they know they made the best choice if they don't get to try any of the other options?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l263" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42785"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42785">13:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">yes...except I think that some of them will only ever do one aspect...and I'd theoretically like to play to their strengths and interests.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l264" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42786"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42786">13:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">I shall reiterate: rfrasur, I wish you were a director in my consortium.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l265" class="cont nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42787"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42787">13:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">I don't think it matters so much which device you get them.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l266" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42788"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42788">13:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins, we'd do some matching beforehand...but not a full petting zoo...although...actually, I might be able to do that...hmmm.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l267" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42789"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42789">13:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: have I mentioned how desperately sick I am of libraries trailing in the information game?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l268" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42790"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42790">13:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #001597" class="nick">* rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg act ">is desperately sick of it.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l269" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42791"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42791">13:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">The key thing would be to get some instructional sessions and exercises that will lead to understanding.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l270" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42792"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42792">13:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">of course</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l271" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42793"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42793">13:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">Sure, I wouldn't expect them to *master* every single aspect of every device. But if you are learning because you want to know which device is best for you, you have a double incentive.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l272" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42794"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42794">13:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #032c28" class="nick">* Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg act ">is also.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l273" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42795"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42795">13:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">I don't really know how to use my smartphone.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l274" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42796"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42796">13:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins: good point.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l275" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42797"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42797">13:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">The one I've had for almost three years.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l276" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42798"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42798">13:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">I find that library staff in general lack the basic frame of reference to make good use of technology.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l277" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42799"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42799">13:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">but you know how to use it for what you use it for</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l278" class="new nick nick_jcamins dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42800"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42800">13:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">If you were to give me two phones, and say "choose one," I would probably learn to use both.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l279" class="cont nick nick_jcamins dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42801"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42801">13:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">I mean, really learn.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l280" class="cont nick nick_jcamins dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42802"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42802">13:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">Not just bang-phone-on-table-until-something-happens.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l281" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42803"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42803">13:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: yes...and I'm not sure I can completely address that...but can at least get a few things dialed in...maybe.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l282" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42804"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42804">13:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: I like them to pacific islanders in 1947 with coconuts strapped to their heads and waving palm fronds at the end of a cracked runway.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l283" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42805"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42805">13:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #001597" class="nick">* rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg act ">is gonna at least try.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l284" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42806"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42806">13:17</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">s/like/liken/</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l285" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42807"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42807">13:17</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">(and, yes, my smartphone requires periodic banging on the table to function)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l286" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42808"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42808">13:17</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: That's just about right.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l287" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42809"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42809">13:17</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins: Mine requires a battery reset often...another reason I don't want an iphone...the fear that I can't take the battery out.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l288" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42810"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42810">13:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: the banging on the table is part of the process for getting it open to remove the battery.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l289" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42811"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42811">13:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">haha! yes!</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l290" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42812"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42812">13:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">I think it would be better to have a variety of devices so that they can learn that they are not all the same, but at the same time have many concepts in common.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l291" class="new nick nick_jcamins dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42813"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42813">13:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">Agreed.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l292" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42814"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42814">13:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">yeah, I think you're both right. The state library actually has a collection of devices that they loan out to libraries that would be a good place to start and then go from there.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l293" class="new nick nick_jcamins dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42815"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42815">13:22</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">And you can use this as an opportunity to discuss Ranganathan's rules.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l294" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42816"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42816">13:22</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">So staff could touch them and then see what type of thing is the best fit.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l295" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42817"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42817">13:22</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins: no</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l296" class="new nick nick_jcamins dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42818"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42818">13:22</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">"Every device its person," "every person its device."</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l297" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42819"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42819">13:22</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l298" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42820"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42820">13:23</a></td>
<td style="color: #001597" class="nick">* rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg act ">isn't going to bring up anything that sounds like a fantasy novel character. Even if it's a good one.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l299" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42821"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42821">13:23</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">Speaking of fantasy novels, I'd forgotten how enjoyable a writer Lois McMaster Bujold was.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l300" class="cont nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42822"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42822">13:23</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">Just thought I'd share that thought.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l301" class="cont nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42823"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42823">13:24</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">What kinds of devices does the state library have?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l302" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42824"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42824">13:24</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">I don't remember beyond basic tablets and ereaders. Trying to get someone on the phone...since I can't find the list on the website.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l303" class="new special">
<td class="time" id="i_42825"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42825">13:24</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">ningalls joined #evergreen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l304" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42826"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42826">13:24</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins: I think many librarians forget the fifth law, or rather preferred it didn't apply to them as well.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l305" class="new nick nick_kmlussier">
<td class="time" id="i_42827"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42827">13:25</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: In my previous job, we pulled together a technology sandbox that we would bring to libraries to get them to try out lots of different devices. We had a lot of fun with it.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l306" class="new nick nick_jcamins dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42828"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42828">13:25</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">Heh.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l307" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42829"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42829">13:25</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: Yes</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l308" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42830"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42830">13:26</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">kmlussier: that's what the state library has...and I'm honestly not sure how much it gets utilized...which is kinda sad.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l309" class="new nick nick_kmlussier dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42831"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42831">13:26</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">While we were out and about, we also came across some libraries that had formed these technology groups among staff that would get together for dinner on a regular basis (maybe monthly) to talk about what was new in technology.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l310" class="cont nick nick_kmlussier dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42832"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42832">13:26</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">These groups tended to have those who were very tech savvy along with those who were trying to come up to speed.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l311" class="cont nick nick_kmlussier dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42833"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42833">13:27</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: Ours got used a lot.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l312" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42834"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42834">13:27</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">kmlussier: THAT sounds nigh unto nirvana</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l313" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42835"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42835">13:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">We have a Key Users' Group in MVLC that is supposed to be more or less like that.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l314" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42836"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42836">13:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">(and not the band)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l315" class="new nick nick_kmlussier dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42837"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42837">13:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">IIRC, they really evolved as a grass roots thing among the staff. I think that was the key to making it fun.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l316" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42838"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42838">13:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Some have questioned whether or not it should continue to exist because recent topics have focused more on reference and collection development type discussions.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l317" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42839"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42839">13:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">well, I'm hopeful. We'll have some benefit money at the end of the year that I'd like to use for that rather than just transferring to another fund.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l318" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42840"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42840">13:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: Key Users?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l319" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42841"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42841">13:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: It sounds more like...rather than it continuing to exist...it just needs its focus adjusted.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l320" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42842"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42842">13:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">But..I need to go get pretzels and frosting...or get someone else to do it.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l321" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42843"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42843">13:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins: I believe it was originally thought of as the "key" user at the library for communicating technology related problems to central site.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l322" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42844"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42844">13:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">(The guy I just fired works at the grocery store)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l323" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42845"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42845">13:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #001597" class="nick">* rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg act ">opts for the second idea because I'm still a bit of a chicken.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l324" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42846"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42846">13:32</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">gmcharlt++ # For maintaining CPAN packages related to MARC</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l325" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42847"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42847">13:32</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: ouch.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l326" class="new nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42848"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42848">13:34</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">Am I crazy or is the current set of pgTAP tests basically fetching a list of objects from the PostgreSQL info schema, then iterating over that list to verify that those objects exist?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l327" class="cont nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42849"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42849">13:36</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">Seems like it is a test of PostgreSQL's info schema, with very little Evergreen-specific testing</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l328" class="new nick nick_gmcharlt">
<td class="time" id="i_42850"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42850">13:37</a></td>
<td style="color: #275d36" class="nick">gmcharlt</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs: I believe the idea is that you would run make-pgtap-tests.sql on a known-clean database, then use them to test a production database for schema variances</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l329" class="cont nick nick_gmcharlt">
<td class="time" id="i_42851"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42851">13:37</a></td>
<td style="color: #275d36" class="nick">gmcharlt</td>
<td class="msg ">where "them" == the generated tests</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l330" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42852"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42852">13:38</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">oh. that sounds useful. i might look at that.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l331" class="new nick nick_dbs">
<td class="time" id="i_42853"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42853">13:38</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">gmcharlt: oh. are there any separate pgTAP tests for Evergreen-specific functions?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l332" class="new nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42854"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42854">13:39</a></td>
<td style="color: #800064" class="nick">* dbs</td>
<td class="msg act ">has just added one for ingesting a record and checking the md5 hash of the MARC to ensure the processing has proceeded as expected</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l333" class="new nick nick_gmcharlt">
<td class="time" id="i_42855"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42855">13:39</a></td>
<td style="color: #275d36" class="nick">gmcharlt</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs: a few -- see Open-ILS/src/sql/Pg/t</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l334" class="new nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42856"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42856">13:40</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">gmcharlt: ah, the make-pgtap-tests.pl in sql/Pg/ threw me off</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l335" class="new nick nick_gmcharlt">
<td class="time" id="i_42857"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42857">13:41</a></td>
<td style="color: #275d36" class="nick">gmcharlt</td>
<td class="msg ">make-pgtab-schema-tests.pl might be a better name</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l336" class="new nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42858"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42858">13:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">Might be useful to add some comments about the intended usage into make-whatever-tests.pl too</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l337" class="cont nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42859"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42859">13:46</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">might add a pointer to "pg_prove" in t/README too. This is good stuff</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l338" class="new nick nick_jboyer-isl">
<td class="time" id="i_42860"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42860">13:52</a></td>
<td style="color: #00c48e" class="nick">jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg ">rfrasur: You had your gadget discussion while I was at lunch, but I wanted to throw a couple cents at it. JCPL picked up a few gadgets (similar to the ISL kit, but hand-picked by me) with things like every type of available kindle, a chromebook, ipod, ipad, galaxy tab, and some nooks</td>
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<tr id="id_l339" class="cont nick nick_jboyer-isl">
<td class="time" id="i_42861"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42861">13:52</a></td>
<td style="color: #00c48e" class="nick">jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg ">Staff could check out devices to learn on, or to show patrons how to use Overdrive, ebrary, etc.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l340" class="cont nick nick_jboyer-isl">
<td class="time" id="i_42862"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42862">13:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #00c48e" class="nick">jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg ">they also made an appearance at a staff day, as a kind of tech petting zoo.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l341" class="cont nick nick_jboyer-isl">
<td class="time" id="i_42863"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42863">13:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #00c48e" class="nick">jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg ">Much better outlay of cash than a 1-1 gadget to staff program where they get to keep something.</td>
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<tr id="id_l342" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42864"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42864">13:55</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">dMiller_ joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l343" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42865"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42865">13:59</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jboyer-isl: sorry..was covering the desk for a few minutes. reading back.</td>
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<tr id="id_l344" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42866"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42866">14:01</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jboyer-isl: do you know offhand what's in the ISL kit?</td>
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<tr id="id_l345" class="new nick nick_jboyer-isl dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42867"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42867">14:02</a></td>
<td style="color: #00c48e" class="nick">jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg ">Nope. I suppose I could go down the hall and ask around.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l346" class="cont nick nick_jboyer-isl dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42868"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42868">14:02</a></td>
<td style="color: #00c48e" class="nick">jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg ">We'll see if anyone's actually here on a Friday.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l347" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42869"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42869">14:02</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">I tried calling several phones and apparently not many people are there on Friday.</td>
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<tr id="id_l348" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42870"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42870">14:02</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">smyers_ joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l349" class="cont special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42871"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42871">14:02</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">smyers__ joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l350" class="new nick nick_jboyer-isl">
<td class="time" id="i_42872"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42872">14:06</a></td>
<td style="color: #00c48e" class="nick">jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg ">I just talked to Shauna, and she'll email us both what's in them. (from memory, I'd say an ipad, kindle fire, and some no-names, either readers or android tablets)</td>
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<tr id="id_l351" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42873"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42873">14:07</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">I know there's a sony reader (woo) and maybe a nook (woo....bleh)</td>
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<tr id="id_l352" class="new nick nick_jboyer-isl">
<td class="time" id="i_42874"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42874">14:07</a></td>
<td style="color: #00c48e" class="nick">jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg ">Nooks used to be all the rage before Od got on Amazon's good side. (and let them spam patrons...)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l353" class="new nick nick_jcamins dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42875"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42875">14:08</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">You don't like the Nook? I thought it was supposed to be better than the Kindle for compatibility.</td>
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<tr id="id_l354" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42876"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42876">14:08</a></td>
<td style="color: #001597" class="nick">* rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg act ">zips lip</td>
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<tr id="id_l355" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42877"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42877">14:08</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins: not anymore...but there's a catch.</td>
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<tr id="id_l356" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42878"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42878">14:08</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">spam patrons? you mean in the "this library checkout has expired, but you can click here to purchase a copy from amazon", or something else?</td>
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<tr id="id_l357" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42879"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42879">14:08</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Now Amazon..at the end of an OD circulation tries to sell them the book</td>
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<tr id="id_l358" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42880"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42880">14:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">Really?!?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l359" class="cont nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42881"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42881">14:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">That's absurd.</td>
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<tr id="id_l360" class="new nick nick_jboyer-isl dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42882"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42882">14:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #00c48e" class="nick">jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg ">"spam" might be a bit harsh. I don't remember if there's actually an email involved, but yes, that,</td>
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<tr id="id_l361" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42883"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42883">14:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">more like "allowed to confuse"</td>
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<tr id="id_l362" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42884"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42884">14:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">just checking.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l363" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42885"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42885">14:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">But you just checked out the book! Why would you buy it?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l364" class="cont nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42886"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42886">14:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">(silly question, I know, don't mind me)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l365" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42887"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42887">14:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins: it only appears at the end of the checkout period.</td>
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<tr id="id_l366" class="new nick nick_jboyer-isl">
<td class="time" id="i_42888"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42888">14:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #00491b" class="nick">* jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg act ">is a terrible library user. I don't even d/l my freegal songs.</td>
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<tr id="id_l367" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42889"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42889">14:09</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins: it's the "this isn't yours to view anymore" placeholder.</td>
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<tr id="id_l368" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42890"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42890">14:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: I guess because you can't just renew a book from overdrive?</td>
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<tr id="id_l369" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42891"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42891">14:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jboyer-isl: me too. I'm the one that checks out stuff, leaves it on the coffee table, and returns it late.</td>
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<tr id="id_l370" class="new nick nick_jcamins">
<td class="time" id="i_42892"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42892">14:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">I'm old-fashioned, and do... that.</td>
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<tr id="id_l371" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42893"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42893">14:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">jcamins: supposedly you can renew books now, but i don't know how it works yet -- i haven't experimented, and it's new as of a month or so ago.</td>
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<tr id="id_l372" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42894"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42894">14:11</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">oh...you can renew stuff now? I haven't tried that yet either.</td>
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<tr id="id_l373" class="new nick nick_jcamins dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42895"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42895">14:11</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">Being a fast reader, I tend not to either not need to renew, or just return it fashionably late.</td>
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<tr id="id_l374" class="new special">
<td class="time" id="i_42896"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42896">14:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">akilsdonk joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l375" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42897"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42897">14:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Usually, if I haven't finished a book in a week, I'll never finish it. There have been exceptions.</td>
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<tr id="id_l376" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42898"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42898">14:12</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">I used to be a fast reader until I began to feel obligated to read purposeful stuff instead of interesting stuff.</td>
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<tr id="id_l377" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42899"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42899">14:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: yep, i can relate to that.</td>
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<tr id="id_l378" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42900"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42900">14:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">(it's like teaching yourself to like broccoli)</td>
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<tr id="id_l379" class="new nick nick_jcamins dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42901"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42901">14:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #002f3f" class="nick">jcamins</td>
<td class="msg ">Heh. I justify reading genre fiction by telling myself that all the content in IRC balances out the fluff.</td>
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<tr id="id_l380" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42902"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42902">14:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">yboston, other DIG folk... has there been much thought about source documentation that includes "this is developer specific" vs "this is general" in the same document, then output is generated with that developer-only bit either excluded or called out in a specific way, allowing non-developers to skip over it?</td>
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<tr id="id_l381" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42903"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42903">14:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">is this a terrible idea, or something interesting?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l382" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42904"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42904">14:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">tspindler joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l383" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42905"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42905">14:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: as far as I know...no, BUT that'd be awesome.</td>
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<tr id="id_l384" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42906"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42906">14:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">okay, one vote for not-terrible</td>
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<tr id="id_l385" class="new nick nick_yboston">
<td class="time" id="i_42907"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42907">14:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: I am not sure if I understand your idea correctly</td>
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<tr id="id_l386" class="new nick nick_kmlussier dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42908"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42908">14:17</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: We haven't discussed that specific idea, but there was an e-mail discussion a few months back where we discussed the idea of including end-user, technical documentation in the same place. Not the same thing, but similar?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l387" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42909"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42909">14:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">yboston: for a specific example, say i'm writing up details on standing penalties, and going into detail on system-maintained standing penalties. as a developer, i might want to call out the places (an sql function, a function called within Actor.pm, etc) where system penalties are maintained...</td>
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<tr id="id_l388" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42910"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42910">14:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">That doesn't strike me as something that's relevant to all but the most interested of end-users, but is useful for developers.</td>
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<tr id="id_l389" class="new nick nick_kmlussier dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42911"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42911">14:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">This: <a href="http://georgialibraries.markmail.org/thread/twcwas7r4yuavxcq" title="http://georgialibraries.markmail.org/thread/twcwas7r4yuavxcq">http://georgialibraries.markmail.org/thread/twcwas7r4yuavxcq</a></td>
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<tr id="id_l390" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42912"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42912">14:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">one option is to have developer documentation and user documentation, and have a pointer from one to the other (perhaps).</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l391" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42913"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42913">14:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">What I just asked about was an idea that I had, and was wondering what others thought. :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l392" class="new nick nick_yboston dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42914"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42914">14:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: are you referring to having a small sub-sections warning this part "is geared for developers" ?</td>
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<tr id="id_l393" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42915"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42915">14:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #71000f" class="nick">* jeff</td>
<td class="msg act ">reads the linked thread</td>
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<tr id="id_l394" class="new nick nick_yboston dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42916"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42916">14:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: I think I am understanding</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l395" class="new nick nick_kmlussier">
<td class="time" id="i_42917"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42917">14:20</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">Yet another e-mail discussion I started and then never did anything with. :(</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l396" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42918"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42918">14:20</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">well, there could be two outputs -- one with the developer sections and one without, or there could be one output with developer bits called out as "feel free to skip this part"</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l397" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42919"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42919">14:20</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">but the real idea is just that there's documentation in one place, that can generate any of the above.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l398" class="new nick nick_gmcharlt">
<td class="time" id="i_42920"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42920">14:20</a></td>
<td style="color: #275d36" class="nick">gmcharlt</td>
<td class="msg ">I like the idea of having a single document be the source of all the knowledge, tagged so that it could be sliced and diced as needed</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l399" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42921"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42921">14:20</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">rather than two places, with potentially conflicting info later, etc.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l400" class="new nick nick_kmlussier">
<td class="time" id="i_42922"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42922">14:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: My take from that discussion is there was general consensus to put it all in one place. Being able to do two different outputs is gravy IMO. :)</td>
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<tr id="id_l401" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42923"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42923">14:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">this is the thread that was at least partially in the back of my mind when i was wondering about this approach. thanks, kmlussier!</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l402" class="new nick nick_yboston">
<td class="time" id="i_42924"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42924">14:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">yes, I would be weary of keeping the docs separate in case the get out of sync. </td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l403" class="cont nick nick_yboston">
<td class="time" id="i_42925"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42925">14:22</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">with asciidoc we might be able to use custom background color styles for technical sections or perhaps use footnotes?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l404" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42926"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42926">14:22</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">while i have the attention of some DIG folk, I'll ask another question that may or may not have been previously answered -- is there thought/plans around integrating content from Evergreen in Action and "the docs"?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l405" class="new nick nick_yboston">
<td class="time" id="i_42927"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42927">14:23</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">Kathy, dbs, and others have down some integration already</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l406" class="new nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42928"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42928">14:23</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: I think I mentioned something about this pre-DIG, basically auto-hiding the API / database schema docs associated with a given feature but making them visible via CSS + JS or whatever</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l407" class="new nick nick_kmlussier">
<td class="time" id="i_42929"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42929">14:23</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs and I converted the first few chapters to AsciiDOC and then added them to the docs. But then I had other things pull on my time, and we never got other volunteers to carry o.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l408" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42930"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42930">14:24</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs: oh, good. i didn't think it was a particularly new idea that i had had. :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l409" class="new nick nick_yboston">
<td class="time" id="i_42931"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42931">14:24</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">that could eb something to try at the DIG hackfest</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l410" class="cont nick nick_yboston">
<td class="time" id="i_42932"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42932">14:24</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">also, Evergreen In Action was geared for EG 2.3(?) so it needs a few updates at the very list. But I still learned a lot from it</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l411" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42933"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42933">14:26</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">yeah. it's an amazing bit of work. i haven't read it cover to cover, but was thinking i should. :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l412" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42934"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42934">14:26</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">yboston++ kmlussier++ dbs++ DIG++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l413" class="new nick nick_yboston">
<td class="time" id="i_42935"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42935">14:27</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">actually, I did not contribute at all to the book, I did not make the trip out to california</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l414" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42936"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42936">14:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">lacking any specific ideas about how to present the output, if i was going to draft a section and wanted to mark advanced/developer topics (say, a few paragraphs here and there, does anyone have a pointer as to what markup i should start with?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l415" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42937"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42937">14:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">yboston: my karma incrementing there wasn't exclusively for Evergreen In Action. :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l416" class="new nick nick_dbs">
<td class="time" id="i_42938"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42938">14:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">rsoulliere++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l417" class="cont nick nick_dbs">
<td class="time" id="i_42939"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42939">14:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">lindsay_stratton++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l418" class="new nick nick_yboston dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42940"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42940">14:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">rsoulliere++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l419" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42941"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42941">14:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">rsoulliere++ lindsay_stratton++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l420" class="new nick nick_yboston dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42942"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42942">14:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">off the top of my head, I would use the "information" admonition block</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l421" class="cont nick nick_yboston dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42943"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42943">14:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">these are the sections with a cutesy icon that you see in docs; like the one that says "warning"</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l422" class="cont nick nick_yboston dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42944"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42944">14:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">with a stop sign</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l423" class="cont nick nick_yboston dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42945"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42945">14:32</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg "><a href="http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/userguide.html#X28" title="http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/userguide.html#X28">http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/userguide.html#X28</a></td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l424" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42946"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42946">14:35</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">thanks.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l425" class="new nick nick_pastebot dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42947"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42947">14:35</a></td>
<td style="color: #005c5c" class="nick">pastebot</td>
<td class="msg ">"yboston" at 64.57.241.14 pasted "How to use the "tip" admonition block" (13 lines) at <a href="http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/30" title="http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/30">http://paste.evergreen-ils.org/30</a></td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l426" class="new nick nick_dbs">
<td class="time" id="i_42948"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42948">14:35</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: Long run, I think we could use a [role="developer"] attribute to denote that the following block is for devs; in HTML output it should generate <p class="developer"> and then we could add the appropriate style/JS widgetry.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l427" class="new nick nick_yboston dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42949"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42949">14:35</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">I was wrong, I would use the "TIP" admonition block</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l428" class="cont nick nick_yboston dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42950"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42950">14:36</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">not the (nonexistent) "information" block</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l429" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42951"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42951">14:36</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">oh, neat! i was looking through asciidoc and the cheat sheet for something generic/extensible like that.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l430" class="new nick nick_dbs dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42952"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42952">14:36</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">Might get tricky to process the PDF appropriately but getting access to custom CSS classes is helpful :)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l431" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42953"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42953">14:36</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">yboston++ dbs++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l432" class="new nick nick_yboston dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42954"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42954">14:37</a></td>
<td style="color: #006163" class="nick">yboston</td>
<td class="msg ">yes, this is only a basic suggestion to at least we can easily spot the technical section easier</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l433" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42955"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42955">14:37</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">yep. i'm sure there'll be a change to how we identify such sections (if we even choose to go that route in the end), but this is a good start.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l434" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42956"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42956">14:41</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">(what the heck is a hanspad?)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l435" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42957"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42957">14:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">HANNSpad is apparently a crappy tablet.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l436" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42958"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42958">14:42</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: yes...as is an ematic</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l437" class="new nick nick_dbs">
<td class="time" id="i_42959"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42959">14:43</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">Nexus 7 (2013 edition) or bust</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l438" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42960"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42960">14:44</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">dbs++</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l439" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42961"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42961">14:44</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">jboyer-isl: I can see why you handpicked your own collection for your library.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l440" class="new nick nick_jboyer-isl">
<td class="time" id="i_42962"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42962">14:46</a></td>
<td style="color: #00c48e" class="nick">jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg ">I also didn't want to have to worry about getting them back, etc. I also thought that if a library can afford a set of things (which we were also using for patron training) better we buy our own than keep one of those kits long term.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l441" class="cont nick nick_jboyer-isl">
<td class="time" id="i_42963"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42963">14:46</a></td>
<td style="color: #00c48e" class="nick">jboyer-isl</td>
<td class="msg ">Also, I like unpacking new gadgets.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l442" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42964"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42964">14:46</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">true true all of that</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l443" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42965"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42965">14:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">/me is preparing for what will hopefully be a Tom Sawyer program that doesn't suck.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l444" class="cont nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42966"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42966">14:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">or...</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l445" class="new nick nick_rfrasur">
<td class="time" id="i_42967"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42967">14:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #001597" class="nick">* rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg act ">is preparing</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l446" class="new nick nick_rfrasur dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42968"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42968">14:53</a></td>
<td style="color: #00646e" class="nick">rfrasur</td>
<td class="msg ">will have to look at tech stuff later. meh</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l447" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42969"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42969">15:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: If I compare sum(money.billing.amount) to mmbxs.total_paid where xact_finish is not null - would I find the troubled rows?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l448" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42970"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42970">15:11</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">by my understanding of your situation, the mmbxs materialized view is fine, and it's just that you have xact_finish set on some transactions that shouldn't be "finished" yet.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l449" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42971"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42971">15:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">that's what I mean</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l450" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42972"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42972">15:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">I need to find those that are not finished</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l451" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_42973"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42973">15:13</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">and my approach would be to find non-null xact's that have $0 paid and have a sum(money.billing.amount) > 0</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l452" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42974"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42974">15:14</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">i think you could just use this query: select id from money.materialized_billable_xact_summary mmbxs where xact_finish is not null and balance_owed > 0;</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l453" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42975"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42975">15:15</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: Best thing to do at this point: Grant a general amnesty.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l454" class="cont nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_42976"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42976">15:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #7d008d" class="nick">Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg ">The reason I say that is I'm starting to suspect that you can't rely on any of the billing information your system, at least as regards the records in question.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l455" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42977"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42977">15:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">that query seemed to be smaller than the one that I came up with</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l456" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42978"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42978">15:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">select (select usrname from actor.usr where id=ba.usr),id,billingsum,total_paid,xact_finish from(select usr,id,(select sum(amount) from money.billing where xact=a.id) "billingsum",total_paid,xact_finish from money.materialized_billable_xact_summary a where usr in(select id from actor.usr where home_ou in(148,150)) and total_paid=0 and xact_finish is not null) as ba where billingsum>0</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l457" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42979"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42979">15:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: one thing off the top of my head is that your query isn't taking into account things like voided billings.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l458" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42980"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42980">15:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">Dyrcona: That still might be an option but I have a drive to figure this out. :)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l459" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42981"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42981">15:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: but if you're wondering, you could look at a transaction that shows up in your query but not mine, and examine it in detail to see if the mmbxs entry for that transaction appears accurate.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l460" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42982"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42982">15:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">ah! that fixed it</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l461" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42983"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42983">15:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">sounds good. what fixed it? :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l462" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42984"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42984">15:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">take out the voided billings and the results are only 1 row different than your query suggestion</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l463" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42985"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42985">15:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">aha</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l464" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42986"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42986">15:19</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">cool.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l465" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42987"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42987">15:20</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">now you could rip into that one different row if you're really curious. i probably would, but that's just me.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l466" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42988"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42988">15:20</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: Oh, already working on it!</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l467" class="new nick nick_dbs">
<td class="time" id="i_42989"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42989">15:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">/win/win 11</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l468" class="cont nick nick_dbs">
<td class="time" id="i_42990"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42990">15:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">meh</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l469" class="cont nick nick_dbs">
<td class="time" id="i_42991"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42991">15:21</a></td>
<td style="color: #100090" class="nick">dbs</td>
<td class="msg ">/lose/lose :)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l470" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42992"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42992">15:26</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: LOL - it's the row that I fixed as a test</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l471" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42993"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42993">15:27</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">aha. :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l472" class="cont nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42994"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42994">15:27</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">which query did it show in?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l473" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42995"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42995">15:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">I used a "not in" strategy there</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l474" class="new nick nick_jeff">
<td class="time" id="i_42996"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42996">15:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">or was it just because you had the output of one of the two queries from before you fixed it, and now both queries return the same data?</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l475" class="new nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42997"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42997">15:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">select * from money.materialized_billable_xact_summary mmbxs where mmbxs.balance_owed>0 and mmbxs.xact_finish is not null and mmbxs.usr in(select id from actor.usr where home_ou in(148,150)) and id not in(</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l476" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42998"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42998">15:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">select id from(select usr,id,(select sum(amount) from money.billing where xact=a.id and voided='f') "billingsum",total_paid,xact_finish from money.materialized_billable_xact_summary a where usr in(select id from actor.usr where home_ou in(148,150)) and total_paid=0 and xact_finish is not null) as ba where billingsum>0</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l477" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic dark">
<td class="time" id="i_42999"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_42999">15:28</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l478" class="new nick nick_Dyrcona">
<td class="time" id="i_43000"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43000">15:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #032c28" class="nick">* Dyrcona</td>
<td class="msg act ">would like to point out that Evergreen is not accounting software, so do not expect accurate billing numbers. ;)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l479" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_43001"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43001">15:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">if you fixed the xact in question by setting xact_finish, it shouldn't have shown up in either query.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l480" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_43002"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43002">15:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">oh, actually it might have shown in your query, if the user had another xact that was still affected.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l481" class="cont nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_43003"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43003">15:30</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">that's probably it.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l482" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_43004"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43004">15:32</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">you're right, I think it's something like that, it's not the one I fixed because I fixed it by updating action.circulation set xact_finish = null</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l483" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_43005"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43005">15:34</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">akilsdonk joined #evergreen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l484" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_43006"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43006">15:35</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: It was total_paid > 0 however total_paid < balance_owed</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l485" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_43007"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43007">15:35</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">ah! that would do it too. :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l486" class="new nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_43008"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43008">15:35</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">my query was flawed in that it assumed that total_paid was 0</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l487" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_43009"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43009">15:36</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: your query is superior and much simpler</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l488" class="cont nick nick_Bmagic">
<td class="time" id="i_43010"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43010">15:38</a></td>
<td style="color: #9d6200" class="nick">Bmagic</td>
<td class="msg ">jeff: update action.circulation set xact_finish = null where id in(select id from money.materialized_billable_xact_summary mmbxs where mmbxs.balance_owed>0 and mmbxs.xact_finish is not null) ::crossfingers::</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l489" class="new nick nick_jeff dark">
<td class="time" id="i_43011"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43011">15:47</a></td>
<td style="color: #001009" class="nick">jeff</td>
<td class="msg ">Bmagic: good luck! :-)</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l490" class="new special">
<td class="time" id="i_43012"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43012">15:48</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">mrpeters left #evergreen</td>
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<td class="time" id="i_43013"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43013">15:50</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">JennB joined #evergreen</td>
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<td class="time" id="i_43014"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43014">15:52</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">tspindler joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l493" class="cont special">
<td class="time" id="i_43015"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43015">16:01</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">stevenyvr2 joined #evergreen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l494" class="cont special">
<td class="time" id="i_43016"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43016">16:10</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">akilsdonk joined #evergreen</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l495" class="new nick nick_kmlussier dark">
<td class="time" id="i_43017"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43017">16:17</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">tspindler: I added your Funding Sources issue to bug 1032171.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l496" class="new nick nick_pinesol_green">
<td class="time" id="i_43018"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43018">16:17</a></td>
<td style="color: #bb004d" class="nick">pinesol_green</td>
<td class="msg ">Launchpad bug 1032171 in Evergreen "EDI Accounts Display" (affected: 2, heat: 12) [Undecided,Triaged] <a href="https://launchpad.net/bugs/1032171" title="https://launchpad.net/bugs/1032171">https://launchpad.net/bugs/1032171</a></td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l497" class="new nick nick_kmlussier dark">
<td class="time" id="i_43019"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43019">16:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #080002" class="nick">kmlussier</td>
<td class="msg ">Hmmm...maybe I should change the title for that bug now.</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l498" class="new nick nick_tspindler">
<td class="time" id="i_43020"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43020">16:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #0800b8" class="nick">tspindler</td>
<td class="msg ">kmlussier: thanks</td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l499" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_43021"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43021">16:29</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">tspindler left #evergreen</td>
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<td class="time" id="i_43022"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43022">17:07</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">mmorgan left #evergreen</td>
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<td class="time" id="i_43023"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43023">18:16</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">smyers_ joined #evergreen</td>
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<td class="time" id="i_43024"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43024">21:18</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">stevenyvr2 left #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l503" class="cont special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_43025"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43025">21:45</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">fparks joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l504" class="new nick nick_pinesol_green">
<td class="time" id="i_43026"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43026">23:34</a></td>
<td style="color: #bb004d" class="nick">pinesol_green</td>
<td class="msg ">[evergreen|Dan Wells] Tweak TPAC header layout styles - <<a href="http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=a5d6c25" title="http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=a5d6c25">http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=a5d6c25</a>></td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l505" class="cont nick nick_pinesol_green">
<td class="time" id="i_43027"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43027">23:48</a></td>
<td style="color: #bb004d" class="nick">pinesol_green</td>
<td class="msg ">[evergreen|Dan Wells] Match main-content right margin to left - <<a href="http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=ee026c9" title="http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=ee026c9">http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=ee026c9</a>></td>
</tr>
<tr id="id_l506" class="new special dark">
<td class="time" id="i_43028"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43028">23:51</a></td>
<td style="color: #ad7900" class="nick"></td>
<td class="msg ">RBecker joined #evergreen</td>
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<tr id="id_l507" class="new nick nick_pinesol_green">
<td class="time" id="i_43029"><a href="/evergreen/2013-10-25#i_43029">23:58</a></td>
<td style="color: #bb004d" class="nick">pinesol_green</td>
<td class="msg ">[evergreen|Dan Wells] Touch-up record detail extras display - <<a href="http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=3505045" title="http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=3505045">http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=commit;h=3505045</a>></td>
</tr>
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